erindotio at February 12th, 2016 13:38 — #21
I echo everything @mshick has said here. Response/support from the core team here in the forums has seemed to drop off significantly in the past ~6 months as well which is worrisome for future projects.
I guess at this point I'd like to know, bottom line, what it would take to jump start this project again? Say if all accounts were raised to $15/mo and there was some sort of "pro" account at $25/mo or whatever, would that be enough to bring the core team back to this project full-time and get some new, much-needed features on a near-term roadmap?
Please please please don't make me go back to Wordpress 💩
samus4145 at February 15th, 2016 09:19 — #22
Agreed. I would pay more in order to get better response time on support. I can't continue to risk going weeks without a response to questions, but on the other hand refuse to go back to WP.
robheath at February 15th, 2016 09:48 — #23
WH still remains my one and only CMS right now. But Static Site gens are only getting more popular. WH is in a unique spot to dominate the space because of the easy of use spinup tool and CMS builder UI. I just hope the WH team is able to keep building WH to be better and better. Does kinda seem like they've lost interest or something.
bauhem at February 16th, 2016 10:45 — #24
I'll go with Webhook again for my next project, no other choice is comparable to Webhook CMS. I come from Webflow, and their's CMS is pretty much a clone of Webhook. But Webhook is a better CMS for a lot of reason. Webflow still the best tool to prototype and create Website.
eduardo at February 17th, 2016 17:27 — #25
I think it's safe to assume WH is at a complete standstill, and has been for a while, and for that reason I am out...
robheath at February 17th, 2016 17:53 — #26
Ok is it me, or were you totally speaking like you are a shark on shark tank?
Webhook still works tho. Maybe if support is an issue I can see ditching, but I haven't had many support issues as of late. Still a valuable product / service.
bauhem at February 17th, 2016 23:03 — #27
I don't really need support with Webhook, but I need to know if i can count on Webhook to stay on the market for years so that my client, and me, are not getting mad by making this choice.
tracy_tra at February 22nd, 2016 12:44 — #28
Bear in mind, folks, that the $9 a month does not pay for support. They've never guaranteed us an active support team. And with the price they have us pay, they shouldn't have to. That being said, I think it would be nice to have a few levels of pricing - the current one for those of us who don't need a ton of support, and maybe a higher one, for those who do want active support (i.e. support that doesn't take 7+ days to respond, if they respond at all, etc.).
robheath at February 22nd, 2016 13:33 — #29
I'd support that. I've seen other companies SAS adopt that model as well.
budparr at February 23rd, 2016 12:50 — #30
$9 month does pay for support. It's in the terms of service. The team's lack of activity is notable and unfortunate and I think shuttering the product would be better than this limbo.
dkenzik at February 23rd, 2016 13:51 — #31
@budparr - I stand corrected regarding support. I assumed it was self-serve.
It is definitely unfortunate, then -- especially for those that are looking for support.
budparr at February 23rd, 2016 14:20 — #32
Well it certainly is self-serve for open source, but I don't even think they're responding to issues on Github so, short of a complete fork, it seems dead on that side too.
dkenzik at February 24th, 2016 16:23 — #33
I really would like to pick my fork back up and make it "cloud agnostic", or at least compatible with AWS.
My shop is an AWS shop and I'd like to make Webhook work within that platform. I remember Webhook mentioning that what kept them away from AWS was the limitation on the number of buckets per account. But, you can ask AWS to raise that as long as you have a proper use-case.
Speaking of AWS, it would be nice to know, if they are allowed to disclose, what the Webhook team did specifically to "port" Webhook over to AWS (I believe @davesnider said his team had a contract to do just that.) Or bonus points, if they can share any of that code -- which would be a head-start in this effort.
I also do not dig the Google image resizer/app/hosting side of things and I'd want that changed to something a bit more extendible and predictable.
Anyway, maybe something to consider for the late spring/summer downtime I tend to have.
budparr at February 25th, 2016 08:58 — #34
Agree with you on all of those points, particularly the deployment portability.
tracy_tra at February 25th, 2016 18:14 — #35
Okay so I guess I should rephrase:
Assuming you want to cover the typical work week, which is M-F, 8 to 5, for the type of customer support that most want, $9 a month is not a reasonable amount to actually afford to pay someone (or in this case, probably two someones), to do support. That doesn't even take into consideration different time zones. So that's more what I meant. Regardless of what they say about support (that the $9 covers it... ?) I do not believe you can reasonably cover the type of support most people want for $9 a month. If it was possible, it would be happening. And by "the type of support most people want", I mean, support that actually responds within a reasonable time of the request. A week is too long for some sort of response. When I did support, even if all I did was reach out -- THE SAME DAY-- OR -- at least during specified business hours -- and say 'Hey, I see your request, and I don't have an answer for you yet, but I'll get to you as soon as I can...." etc., it doesn't take much to do that. That sort of response can even be automated and won't look automated if you do it right....
sam at March 14th, 2016 11:20 — #36
I think a few of us have said many times we would be willing to pay more, I stated the price to my boss for costing and he laughed and said great sign us up!
So what if the site split down into two separate offerings. Webhook.com was all about the open source goodness then another well branded (not called webhook, possibly the most generic name for something based on the internet) offered the server and paid support that larger companies required in a three tiered system?
Webhook still seems like a ghost online which it should not be. So many of the channels that it could be using are un touched. I subscribe to about 10 influential tech newsletters and follow many twitter accounts and still hear nothing about webhook. I understand this is because all the money and time went into building an amazing product. Guess what you did it now it's time to make it a sustainable, profitable and widely known product. I personally am happy to work for free on a share basis (on the new company of course) as I know how much potential this product has. My expertise falls into design, marketing and conversion rate optimisation whilst being an ok developer.
Or let me know your user numbers and we can raise some capital from investors to market webhook and rebrand into something even more amazing. I know plenty of investors would jump at the chance to be involved. I love to do an SEO review of the current webhook site for free to see if I can make you guys more business to provide responsive support.
Basically willing to do anything to save myself the embarrassment of explaining to a client why something is not working or why webhook has shut down and we have to move and rebuild everything...
Otherwise I am going to do it all by myself.
@davesnider @budparr @mshick @erindotio
hellbox at March 30th, 2016 12:40 — #37
Just throwing my name in here. I'm not angry about the lack of support, but it does kind of suck. They obviously painted themselves into a corner with very cheap pricing. $9 a month is a total bargain, but I would pay a lot more, if I knew it came with semi-responsive support.
My biggest issue is the future. I founded a business based on this platform. I've seen platforms come and go, so I'm not completely naive, but having to consider rebuilding everything I've done less than a year after doing it, on another unknown platform is a daunting prospect, and gives me some regret for the time I've put into building here, and frustration since I was invited to try the platform by @davesnider on Twitter just before they had to turn their attention away from it. Now I'm looking at duplicating all of my efforts and great time, and expense, and losing capabilities I'm now taking for granted.
But my biggest fear is that, given the lack of communication, that we're facing a shutdown situation in the near future without much warning. I know they've said that they can run nearly indefinitely, but I've worked on GAE before, and I know that Google with change things that need addressing with short notice. If they don't have time to address those, shutting down may be the smartest choice for them, and we'll be scrambling. I hope it's not the case.
So. Are other people making alternate plans? What platforms?
budparr at March 31st, 2016 10:45 — #38
@hellbox You're absolutely right: there's a big difference between running indefinitely and maintaining a robust software platform. I find the willful, and it does appear to be willful, lack of support or even communication offensive and am surprised to hear other paying customers say otherwise. A purely open source project is one thing, but this is a commercial enterprise that is still accepting commitments from paying customers, who, from what it looks like on these forums and what I've heard elsewhere, are not getting any communication from the team. My last communication with Dave Snider, last October, was me saying that I want to jump in and help however I could, which I got no reply to. Now I have contractual obligations with other companies to support software that I assume I won't get any support on, nor am welcome to contribute to. I am perplexed why they are completely ignoring these forums and support requests. I'm in the process of extricating all of my projects out of Webhook.
It just so happens that over the past year a lot of really robust solutions have come to a level of maturity that solve many of the problems we looked to Webhook for.
Anyone comfortable with hosted Webhook should be equally comfortable with using Contentful (https://www.contentful.com/) or Prismic.io (https://prismic.io/) as a backend and the static site generator or app of their choice on the front-end. It's really a great solution, and I think the "headless CMS" (which some of us thought Webhook could become) is here to stay.
For myself, I'm mostly back to using Jekyll (http://jekyllrb.com/), which has seen really nice advances over the last year (with the 3.0 release), and Cloudcannon (http://cloudcannon.com/) as a client interface, which is getting better every day. There are other editing solutions in the works.
davesnider at April 1st, 2016 22:59 — #39
I've removed links to Webhook support and added messaging on the homepage that the hosting platform is self-service software. Likely there are lots of other places in the Webhook code (like the terms of service or our automated emails) that I will need to adjust to make that clear, but it's a start. I'll try to send out a general email as well.
My position on Webhook has not changed since my last post. It will occasionally receive updates when Ian or I have time. I still use it for my own projects, it is used by large companies like Amazon and I have zero intention of shutting it down and pissing off tons of people. At the same time, Webhook is not a sustainable business, not even close.
As disappointing as it is, we've had to move on to regular jobs and commit our time elsewhere. I'm as heartbroken about Webhook as a business as anyone here, but I also can't really commit more time to it. I spent a considerable portion of my personal wealth to build Webhook and it stands as the best code I've ever written. I'm very proud of it and I'm certain many of its ideas will be copied. I don't regret any of the work other than using the webhook.com domain. I'm glad I own it so I don't need to just turn the lights out on people. I'm glad we open sourced it early on.
I've had a few numerous shady requests to purchase the platform recently, which I've ignored because I'd rather it live as is, available for as long as Ian and I are around. It's really fucking stable and has NEVER gone down. It was built that way. Barring some large change event to Google's cloud platform that requires a rework it will remain that way because we enjoy it, not because it's some moneymaking machine we're gleefully ignoring.
The code is open. Fork it. Make your own business out of it if you think you can do better. Or host the sites yourself if you're that worried. Or move onto other software. Or stick around, send in a PR (we got some this week). It's not like it's going anywhere. If you genuinely interested in taking over the community, feel free to ping me email@example.com. The code at the very least could use a maintainer, someone who can approve PRs.
Webhook has several hundred websites on it and that number grows slowly each month despite the comments on this board. There is no doubt to me it's solving problems for people. I still build new sites on it and have friends who build new sites on it because it just works.
I just can't afford to answer the same DNS / template typo support emails anymore. Sometimes I fantasize about reviving my work on it, but as a Father with small children it's just not in the cards and I need to focus on my current work and opportunities. I very much failed on the marketing of this project.
There's no way for you to not be upset about the posts I've made in this thread, but at least have some context and understand that we're taking the best option we can, keeping the hosted platform alive (again, I use it for NEW sites) for those that have sites on it and wish to continue to do so.
bauhem at April 3rd, 2016 23:28 — #40
Yeah!!! That's what I thought and i'm really proud to use your tool. It's perfect for every people need's. I felt that Webhook might be a sideline job you, for now, with your children. Your docs, forum and tutorial is enough to find answers and understand principale of templating.
I feel privileged to use your platform. Thanks!
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